Radio interview – ABC Adelaide Breakfast
DAVID BEVAN, HOST: Good morning, Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you.
STACEY LEE, HOST: Now, Prime Minister, we want to talk to you about your oration, the Lowitja O’Donoghue Oration very soon. But first, I’m looking at a picture of you at a protest at Sydney Uni when you were 20 years old. We’ve recently had some changes to the protest legislation here in South Australia, and most of the unions and some Labor MPs are a bit annoyed about the changes, that they will stifle the right of free speech. As the Prime Minister, as someone who’s attended protests, do you think that is an important right to maintain – the right to protest and free speech?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course, free speech is important. But it’s also important to exercise responsibility as well. And some of the depiction of shutting down a whole city in a dangerous way can be an issue, and it doesn’t actually help the cause either. I have marched many a time, as have, I’m sure, most members of political parties. It’s important that people be able to express their views. But it’s important also that they don’t alienate the public while they’re doing it.
BEVAN: But your union movement here in South Australia has described these as odious reforms by Peter Malinauskas.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I have every faith that Peter Malinauskas will act responsibly. We have seen emerge in recent times, I’ve got to say, when I see depictions of people throwing food and paint and various things, smearing great works of art for example, I just shake my head and think, I’m not quite sure how that that assists the cause which the advocates are pushing. And certainly, always, people have got to bear that in mind of how they bring people with them. It is, of course, important that people be able to express their views. But it’s important at the same time that they don’t endanger emergency service personnel, that they don’t disrupt in a way that completely alienates people from their causes.
LEE: Now, last night, you delivered the Lowitja O’Donoghue Oration, and you referred to the ‘67 referendum. You said predictions about the Voice referendum have been offered by ‘Chicken Littles’. What did you mean by Chicken Littles?
PRIME MINISTER: I meant the idea that the sky would fall in – the great Chicken Little story which is there. The truth is that people, before the Apology, many said that this would lead to catastrophic consequences, that it would change our whole system of government and that we would be more divided because of it. And what I saw on that day in 2008 was a moment of national unity. And now does anyone say that it was a bad idea? In the Mabo decision, when the Wik decision was handed down, I remember ads being circulated showing that people were going to lose their backyards. Now, none of that eventuated. Now, the proposal that will be put forward in the last quarter of this year is a very simple one. It gives recognition to the First Peoples of Australia and recognises them, just as constitutions around the world have recognised their First Peoples. Australia hasn’t, it stands out as the only developed nation in the world that arose from, had a colony as its past that didn’t recognise that. And secondly, it’s about listening. It’s about providing an opportunity for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to express their views on matters that affect them. It’s not binding, it’s not a funding body, it won’t override Parliament, it won’t change our system of government, it won’t impact the day to day lives of the overwhelming majority of your listeners. But it just might make the lives of some of our most disadvantaged people, our First Peoples, that much better.
BEVAN: Last week, you told Parliament, Peter Dutton had given a speech in which he outlined his opposition to the referendum question, which was ‘unworthy of an alternative Prime Minister’. What does that make the citizens who agree with Peter Dutton?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, look, people absolutely are entitled to have different views and I respect that.
BEVAN: Yes but if he holds that view, and that makes him an unworthy alternative Prime Minister, what does it make the citizens who agree with him?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it’s not his view as in his support for a No campaign, people can have different views about the Constitution, they can have different views about this legitimately. What is not appropriate is for someone who is the alternative leader of the nation to, for example, use the term ‘re-racialize the Constitution’, when race powers are, in fact, in the Constitution, and there is no mention of race in what has been put forward.
BEVAN: Your speech implicitly promises to reduce infant mortality, incarceration, suicide and disease through the Voice. If the Voice is such an effective mechanism to bring on these changes, why risk it failing by insisting it goes into the Constitution? Why not establish it through legislation, you could do that today?
PRIME MINISTER: The whole point of a Voice is listening to First Nations people. And this hasn’t come from the government. this isn’t my proposal. This is a proposal that has come from the bottom up, most of which was developed under the former Coalition government. There was a process leading up to a First Nations Constitutional Convention at Uluru in 2017. And it decided that they wanted constitutional recognition, but the form of recognition they wanted was one that gave them a Voice, that enabled them to give advice.
BEVAN: But you know that by insisting that the Voice goes in the Constitution, you risk it not succeeding. But if it’s such an effective mechanism, why not legislated it? Because you think it will reduce infant mortality, incarceration, suicide and disease, so just legislate it.
PRIME MINISTER: The whole point of the Voice is listening to Indigenous people. And if at the first step you say, ‘we’re not going to listen to what you’ve said, we’re going to ignore that, and we’re going to do our own thing’. It was up to, the former government could have legislated at any time. They didn’t do so. They presided over a system for six years, for six years between, it is now since the Uluru Statement from the Heart. They had the Calma-Langton Review that gave advice about what the structure would be, and that will be very important going forward. But Indigenous people themselves are making this very generous, in my view, and gracious request to walk with them. To, instead of policies being made for First Nations people, do it with First Nations people. Because we know, and I gave examples last night, about Indigenous Rangers, about community health programs, about justice reinvestment programs, where Indigenous people, when they’ve been involved directly in the policy, they have been the most effective areas going forward. And that’s what First Nations people came together, more than 200 delegates, selected by local communities, came together and made the request for. Now, it is six years since that request was made, and we will give the Australian people the opportunity to get informed, to find out more about what this is about, and then to make their decision.
BEVAN: Prime Minister, you hope this will be a unifying moment. How will you judge that it’s been a unifying moment? Will it be a bare majority? Will it be 60/40? Will it be 70/30? How would you know it was a unifying moment, or to flip it, how would you know it had divided the nation?
PRIME MINISTER: I think when it is successful, people will move forward together. There’ll be legislation to have the structure of the Voice, and I’m very hopeful that people will come together in a constructive way. The fact is that many people warned, and you would recall, the lead up to the Apology to the Stolen Generations, which was opposed by the-then government at the time for many years, that it would be a divisive matter. The truth is that it wasn’t. The truth is it did bring the country together. And now no one says it was a bad idea.
LEE: You’re listening to Nikolai, Stacy and David for Breakfast on ABC Radio Adelaide, also the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. Prime Minister, I think Mark McGowan’s announcement yesterday that he’s retiring was a bit of a surprise for most people, and there were a few reasons, exhaustion. And another part of it was the constant political argument, debate and confrontation that he said was a daily occurrence now. Is that something that weighs on you as well?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, it does. I think, I have a look at what people say occasionally. I try not to look at comments on social media, I’ve got to say. But it is quite horrific. I know that during the pandemic, the need for people in leadership positions to have security, because of issues that are raised for their own personal safety and that of their families. But the things that people say online sometimes are quite astonishing. The other day I put out a very simple tweet when I heard of Tina Turner’s passing, and I did it myself, just put it out, and had a look a while later at the comments. And one would have thought that that was something that could have just been said, and it was out of respect for her. And she, of course, famously had Simply the Best as a rugby league theme. And that was part of the soundtrack for anyone who grew up being in a rugby league state. And instead, somehow that got weaved into a whole range of political issues. It’s quite astonishing what people are prepared to say, often anonymously, of course. And the trolls and bots that go on place a lot of pressure on people in political lives.
LEE: And speaking of political debate and rugby league, we’ve got the State of Origin here in Adelaide tomorrow night.
PRIME MINISTER: You do, indeed.
LEE: Every time this happens, or every time we have a league game played here, the conversation of an Adelaide team comes up. Do you, as Prime Minister, as a Blues supporter, as a member of the Canberra State of Origin team, would you like to see a return of the Adelaide Rams, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: I’ll leave that to the, that’s above my pay-grade. I’ll leave that to the NRL. I have said on the record that I want to see a team from Papua New Guinea and the Pacific in the National Rugby League. They are so passionate about it, and I’m sure there are a portion of your Adelaide listeners are passionate about it. But I don’t think it’ll ever override the love for either the Crows or Port, I’m afraid. But it is fantastic, I think, that rugby league is being taken to Adelaide, and I’d encourage people to get along and see what will be a great contest tomorrow night.
LEE: Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.