Aussie PM Talks on ABC Melbourne Radio 7 June
: The Prime Minister’s been in Melbourne for many important things, including watching Hawthorn last night. Good morning.
ANTHONY ALBANSES, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you, Raf.
EPSTEIN: Let’s see if we get to that. Just on what is coming up, you are meeting Donald Trump soon. Are you going to loosen the rules on them on getting letting US beef into Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’ll never loosen any rules regarding our biosecurity. If things can be sorted out in a way that protects our biosecurity – of course, we don’t just say no, we don’t want imports in here for the sake of it. But our first priority is biosecurity and there’ll be no compromise on that.
EPSTEIN: If things can be sorted out. What does that mean?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that the sector themselves have been engaged. These restrictions came up because of foot and mouth disease, because of protections, and they’ve been working through those issues to make sure that there are no biosecurity threats –
EPSTEIN. So, can I get technical then? Right now they can’t import cattle. Some of the cattle might be raised in Mexico or Canada, but then slaughtered in the United States. So, therefore, you can’t bring it in to Australia. Is that going to change?
PRIME MINISTER: No, we will not change or compromise any of the issues regarding biosecurity. Full stop, exclamation mark. It’s simply not worth it. So, it’s that simple.
EPSTEIN: Let’s talk about your meeting with Donald Trump, then. You had Dan Andrews as your stand in for Peter Dutton in the debates. Have you practised with a stand in for Donald Trump? Most leaders have a pretty rough reception.
PRIME MINISTER: Look, I’m looking forward to meeting Donald Trump face to face. We’ve had three conversations. They’ve been constructive, they’ve been polite and they’ve been respectful. That’s the way I deal with people and I’ll deal with that in an appropriate way, in our national interest. The United States is an important ally for Australia. There are obviously issues, not between Australia and the United States – it’s not like Australia’s been singled out for any particularly egregious treatment. It’s that across the board, these tariffs have been imposed, including on Australia. And we think because of a range of issues – our free trade agreement, the fact the US has a trade surplus to Australia, this is an act of economic self harm. And we’ll continue to advocate for Australia’s interests.
EPSTEIN: In your Cabinet, who does the best Trump impersonation?
PRIME MINISTER: We don’t do that. We’re respectful.
EPSTEIN: Well, no, I mean, private conversation –
PRIME MINISTER: We’re respectful of international leaders.
EPSTEIN: I’m getting at – it can be a tough road with him. Some world leaders have – I don’t even know how to describe those press conferences. Are you at all nervous about that?
PRIME MINISTER: No. Look, I deal with people in the same way I deal with, when I walk in here in your studio. I deal with people, whoever they are, in the same respectful way. I expect respect back. I’m the Prime Minister of Australia. We don’t have a subservient relationship to any nation. We’re a sovereign nation that stand on our own two feet.
EPSTEIN: I think he likes subservient relationships, doesn’t he?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the relationship we have with me is one of mutual respect for both of our nations. And my job is to act in Australia’s national interest, and that’s what we’ll do.
EPSTEIN: I will get to your calls in a moment. I wanted to ask you PM, though, in the news today, Elon Musk was best mates with Trump. Now Elon Musk is saying Trump was associating with the known paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Like, does that – do you just chuck that all out of your mind? You’re gonna be posing for photos with the US President. Is that not even in your mind when you’re next to him?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, President Trump was elected by the people of the United States. You respect the Office. But also, I start off with people at 100 per cent and work down from there. That’s the way that I deal with people, and that’s my job, is to engage with people right around the world in Australia’s national interest. President Trump is obviously an interesting character.
EPSTEIN: Did you look at that news this morning?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course people look at the news. Of course they do. And it’d be disingenuous to say that we didn’t. But my job isn’t to worry about the relationship between Elon Musk and Donald Trump. My job is to think about the relationship between the United States and Australia.
EPSTEIN: I do want to talk about the impact of the election victory for everybody here in Melbourne, but Lucy is calling first of all from Kew. Lucy, what did you – hold on, wrong button. What did you want to ask, Lucy? Where’s she gone? Sorry, she’s not there. I’ll tell you what, I’ll go to Kosh in Melton South. Sorry, I don’t know what’s going on with the phones there. Kosh, go for it. Whoa. We’ve got issues there, I think, with our calls. Hang on a tick. I’ll see if I can get those callers back and I will get to more of them on 1300 222 774. Massive win for you, Prime Minister. Is there such a thing as winning too big?
PRIME MINISTER: No. No. It’d be like your football team winning by 20 goals and you wish they win by two points. That’s not the way it is.
EPSTEIN: You don’t think you can be too dominant in the Parliament?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, we have a clear mandate. Before the election, you might recall me being asked repeatedly about minority government. Me repeatedly giving the same answer that I was aiming for and thought we would achieve majority government. What that does is provide for more stability, frankly, going forward. It is possible, of course, to govern in minority. That is actually the norm in just about every part of the world, including recently in countries like India and Japan, that in those parties, Modi was dominant before. The LDP has were dominant in Japan for decades. But that changed. So, you deal with whatever parliament you have and that is what we’ll do. We, of course, have a Senate where we have 29 votes. We don’t have a majority out of 76, and so –
EPSTEIN: Did you need to seal another Senator? You’re pretty dominant in the House. Did you need another one in the Senate?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that was a decision that she made because she felt like the Greens had moved away from where the Greens historically have been.
EPSTEIN: And she doesn’t come with any baggage?
PRIME MINISTER: She has made a decision that she wants to be a part of a party of government. And the difference between a party of government and a minor party is that a party of government makes decisions, puts forward legislation. A minor party waits for that to happen and then decides how they’ll respond. Now, if you’re serious about social change, this has been my view since I was at school, when I joined the Labor Party, is that the vehicles for major change in this country are the major political parties.
EPSTEIN: Does it give you the leeway to be bolder and to go bigger than what you spoke about at the last election? I mean, it’s a tonne of seats, right? It gives you a buffer at the next election. There’s a ton of people on the text happy you won and want you to go further. Does it mean you do go further?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think it is really important that we don’t get ahead of ourselves, that we recognise the reason why we won a majority and a clear majority of seats – we’ve got 51 more seats than the Coalition – is because we did what we said we would do. We concentrated on issues that people cared about. Cost of living, housing, dealing with these immediate issues that they were concerned about, providing income support, the tax cuts for every taxpayer.
EPSTEIN: And all those people on the sides cheering on, saying, no, no, go further, go harder. What do you say to them?
PRIME MINISTER: What I say is that we’ll do what we said we would do. If there are areas – inevitably, during an election, you put forward what you want to do. We had a plan for strengthening Medicare and Free TAFE and tax cuts for all. Before the last election, we didn’t expect that we would have to intervene, for example, in the gas and coal market to put a cap on prices. That would have been incredibly radical to put forward. We did that in partnership with the Liberal Government in New South Wales. There are things that you have to deal with. We didn’t think that the global inflationary crisis that we had to deal with would be the biggest since a number of decades and that we’d have the biggest energy crisis since the 1970s. We had to deal with that. Inevitably, there’ll be things thrown at us. But we’ve got a big reform agenda. The aged care reform is really complex. We want to make sure we land it. We want to make sure we land the Cheaper Child Care plans. We want to make sure we deal with the energy transition. That is complex. It’s not straightforward.
EPSTEIN: Let’s get onto some of those questions and some of those calls. The PM’s in the studio. I will get to your calls after this.
(Interlude)
EPSTEIN: The PM’s in the studio taking your calls. I think we’ve got Lucy now calling from Kew. Lucy, go for it.
LUCY: Hi, hello. I voted for you because I thought you took the environment seriously. And I was excited when you had such a majority win because I thought you’d do some really innovative, exciting things. So, I have to say I’m disappointed and I’m also wondering why one of the first things you did was extend the gas and coal projects to sort of just – yeah, not great for young people. And also the women who voted for you that are often really worried about the environment.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Lucy, and thanks for your support at the election. Look, we had to deal with – it’s an interim decision, by the way, so it’s not a final decision – but the Environment Minister had to deal with the North West Shelf project under the existing EPBC Act that we did try to change in the last election. It was before the Parliament for almost two years. We do want a national change, reform of the Environment Act, including with a national Environmental Protection Agency.
EPSTEIN: Is that a reason for someone like Lucy to be disappointed?
PRIME MINISTER: No, because what the Minister had to respond under the Act, under the law, and under the law what he has done is make an interim decision that the company now gets a chance, the participants get a chance to respond to. So, it’s not final, but there are a range of conditions to be imposed. Conditions to make sure that the two issues that are dealt with there, particularly the rock art there that has, it must be said, the local Aboriginal corporation there is – I’ve met with them in the past. They’re very supportive of industry. They want to make sure there’s protection, but they support those jobs and that economic activity which is there. Importantly, in the last Parliament we passed legislation that means that this project, like other major emitters, the more than 200, are subject to the Safeguard Mechanism. That means they have to reduce their emissions over a period of time up to 2050, toward net zero –
EPSTEIN: It is a massive increase. And past 2050 though, it’s a big increase in the country, in the nation’s emissions. I guess there’s a few points that get mentioned by the people who might share Lucy’s concerns. There’s less tax revenue going forward with the PRRT, not more. There’s less tax. It raises our emissions and it doesn’t bring gas prices down. So, like, what’s good about that?
PRIME MINISTER: Now, if you have a look at WA, which has a gas reservation, unlike the east coast, so, some of that gas goes into their system. The last coal fired power station is closing at Collie in 2027 in Western Australia. They are moving to 100 per cent renewables. But in order to do that they need the firming capacity of gas. They don’t have hydro in WA, they need the firming capacity of gas in order to move there –
EPSTEIN: But tax is going down and emissions are going up.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it’s not right. The facility has to have, with the Safeguard Mechanism, a reduction of a percentage each and every year as it goes forward. That is legislation that was passed by the whole of the Parliament – well, by Labor, the Greens political party and the crossbenchers –
EPSTEIN: Yes.
PRIME MINISTER: To make sure that we transition to net zero. And this facility, like other major facilities, is all included in that.
EPSTEIN: Can I go to another call? I’ve got more questions as well. And I do want to get to the Suburban Rail Loop, given how key it is. Kosh is calling from Melton South. Kosh, what’s your question?
KOSH: Good morning, Prime Minister. Good morning, Raf. It’s an honour to speak to you and I’m very happy that my vote counted and I voted for Labor every time, each time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you, Kosh.
KOSH: My question to you, Prime Minister, is the Melbourne’s youth crime. It is going out of hand. Just yesterday when I was filling up the gas station, it’s a Shell, the Ready station and they’re closing down. It used to be a 24 hour gas station. They’re closing down at 11pm because they had enough of rampage youths coming up, destroying. I have a family, young family and I’m really scared. What’s the plan? Because obviously the bail laws are not working. Is there a plan for the federal level to make very strict law so that we get some kind of hand over this lawlessness that is happening around in Melbourne?
EPSTEIN. So, you want the Federal Government to do something about those issues for you, Kosh, that’s your question?
KOSH: Obviously, Raf, nothing is working out at a state level.
EPSTEIN: Understood. I just wanted to clarify the question. PM?
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Kosh. Look, I know that the state government of Jacinta Allan are toughening up the bail laws to make sure that these issues are dealt with. They are state laws, not federal laws. We do have the three tiered system in Australia. One of the things that the Federal Government can do, which is indirect – not about those direct law and order issues that are a responsibility of the state – but we can make sure that young people have employment opportunities. Make sure that they’re engaged – and we do have a role in that. That’s why measures like Free TAFE, that’s why our increased support that we’ve done with the state government here for better and fairer schools funding that will see funding rise by billions of dollars from the Commonwealth to Victoria can make a difference there.
EPSTEIN: Are you saying to both Kosh and Lucy, actually, that a bit of frustration is inevitable? They both voted for you. They both sound a bit frustrated. Is that frustration inevitable?
PRIME MINISTER: No, not at all. But people should hold their representatives to account and no government is going to get everything right. My Government won’t. What we’ll do, though, is we’ll try each and every day. And the other thing we’ll do is, we’ll list to the concerns of people like Lucy and Kosh and engage with them directly and respectfully. That’s one of the reasons why I like coming into your studio, Raf. I used to do it in the afternoon and I’ll do it in the morning too. And I do it right around the country because we need to hear what’s happening on the ground.
EPSTEIN: The Suburban Rail Loop, PM, you have given $2 billion to it, but the state government needs another $9 billion from the Federal Government. I don’t think a federal government’s ever given a state government $9 billion for a single project. So, it’s a significant sum. Are you worried that the Victorian Government hasn’t done their homework on the project?
PRIME MINISTER: No, they’re working through these issues. It’s a long term project, obviously, but we’ve got $23 billion for Victorian infrastructure. I was at the North East Link yesterday, that I’ve got to say, as we drove along the road to get to the site where we where the tunnelling is occurring at this point in time. It’s an enormous project. 8,000 people being employed on that project. Now, that’s a project worth in over $20 billion that will leave a lasting legacy, not just for reducing traffic congestion, but on top of where cars will be driving will be a whole lot of open space and facilities that’ll give back to the community –
EPSTEIN: Can I get you back on the Suburban Rail Loop, though?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Suburban Rail Loop is – this, it’s a major project, but so was Melbourne Metro, that’ll be open later this year and that will make an enormous difference. That would have been opened in 2019 had the Abbott Government not cut funding for it.
EPSTEIN: They’re all valid points to make, but can I just, I just want to drill down into something. The people that tick the box, Infrastructure Australia, you know them intimately. They’ve got low confidence in the information. That is something they say.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they’re working with –
EPSTEIN: If I can finish the question. They also say there’s a high risk of problems with the information the Victorian Government’s given. Are there problems with what the Victorian Government’s provided so far, or not?
PRIME MINISTER: No, they’re working with Infrastructure Australia on this process. I had a meeting with the Premier just yesterday after we were at the North East Link. That is the role of Infrastructure Australia, is to interrogate these issues, to make sure that these issues are got right –
EPSTEIN: There’s a real difference, though, right? Infrastructure Australia wants the sort of detail the Victorian Government doesn’t want to give. Infrastructure Australia wants a business case just on the bit being built now, not on the whole thing. Victorian Government says you can’t separate those two things out. That’s a fundamental difference.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they’ll engage constructively. That’s what we will do. And importantly, the Suburban Rail Loop includes, of course, the $7 billion that we have for the Airport Rail Link.
EPSTEIN: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: Now, that work at Sunshine Station will be really important and the Airport Rail Link will be a part of the network. What this growing city needs is investment in road and rail, because if it’s just road, it simply doesn’t work. Great cities need great public transport and Victoria is getting that with the Melbourne Metro. And the issues on Suburban Rail Loop are being worked through. Connected up with, of course, Airport Rail Link as well.
EPSTEIN: Another call. Damian is calling from Mooroolbark about a subject we’ve been talking about all week in Tassie. Damian, go for it. What’s your question?
DAMIAN: Yeah, good morning, Prime Minister. It’s an honour to speak to you.
PRIME MINISTER: Morning Damian.
DAMIAN: Yeah, just, I saw you on the TV last night with supporting the Hawks and they had on their jerseys, Tasmanian. If we can sort of like get that stadium across the line, I’d love to see a Tassie team.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I support a Tassie team very strongly. I know there is now bipartisan support for that in Tasmania. You know, you go down there, there’s such a great passion and people like Peter Hudson and there’s been some great players come from Tasmania, and it’s also about how our nation functions and the south island is an important part of our nation, so –
EPSTEIN: Is the stadium too expensive? Is it a bad idea?
PRIME MINISTER: No, a stadium is a good idea if it is a part of – which it is – a whole urban redevelopment project. If you think about, I mean, last night I was down there at Docklands. I remember when it didn’t look like that. That whole precinct of urban development, housing, you know, recreational, hospitality as well as a sporting precinct. It’s transformed Melbourne. And if you look at all of Australia’s cities, whether it’s Elizabeth Quay and in Perth, Barangaroo in Sydney, South Bank – what you have is, historically, industry was located next to waterways because that’s where stuff was dumped, effectively. Now, Hobart is a beautiful city and the Derwent is magnificent. And at the moment, you can’t get to the waterfront. That Macquarie Point site is the best development site you could possibly think of.
EPSTEIN: But it’s a billion dollars. They only spend $10 billion a year. Like is it too big? Is it, does it cost too much?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it needs to be a part of developing that whole area. And in 2012, when I was Infrastructure Minister, we gave money for planning and development of the Macquarie Point site and nothing happened for a decade. You need a catalyst sometimes to drive other investment through is what I’m saying.
EPSTEIN: I want to squeeze in one more caller before we get to the news. Cathy’s in Warrnambool. Cathy, what do you want to say?
CATHY: I’d just like to say, why aren’t we getting any money to feed our animals here down in Victoria for our drought? It’s alright to have infrastructure, but we need money to feed our animals.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Federal Government is providing that. I was on a farm in South Australia in near Gawler just on Monday with the National Farmers Federation. We’re providing over $1 billion of support for farmers. We know that people are doing it tough. We’ve been talking with the NFF. I spoke with – if you’re at Warrnambool – I spoke with your local Member, Dan Tehan, just yesterday and –
EPSTEIN: So just to confirm, there is federal money going into for farmers in Victoria at the moment?
PRIME MINISTER: There is federal money going in for, through various programs, that’s providing support. We recognise there’s going to need to be more to be done. These issues aren’t partisan. Dan contacted me yesterday. We engaged constructively. I’ve been talking with people, including with the sector and I raised it with the Premier just yesterday as well, raised these issues with me and I understand people are doing it tough. And it’s been there for a long period of time. You know, I’ve been in the last week, I’ve been drought in the south and I’ve been in areas that have been inundated by floods in the Mid North Coast of New South Wales.
EPSTEIN: You’ve got 10 seconds. You’re being teased, mocked, maybe for not having an MND beanie at the match last night. Is that fair teasing or unfair for not having the beanie for the big freeze?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I was inside.
EPSTEIN: Corporate box, don’t need it.
PRIME MINISTER: To be fair, I was inside with the Hawks. I’ve done a video for MND11 for Monday.
EPSTEIN: Thank you for coming in, PM.
PRIME MINISTER: Good stuff.
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/radio-interview-abc-melbourne-9