PM Albanese Speaks on Insiders
We're going straight to the Prime Minister this morning. Anthony Albanese, welcome back to the programme.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Happy Australia Day weekend.
SPEERS: Indeed. Look, the Coalition has split again. The right of politics is realigning. Does this worry you at all, or are you loving this?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it does worry me. I think what the country needs is more unity and less division. The Liberal and National parties have always been focused in recent times on trying to divide Australians and now they're dividing themselves. You can't fight for the national interest if you're too busy fighting yourselves, and that's what we're seeing on the right of politics at the moment.
SPEERS: I mean, the one thing the Liberals, the Nationals agree on, as well as the Greens and the Teals by the way, is that it was your rush to legislate the gun crackdown, the hate groups crackdown, that created all this parliamentary chaos. Was the rush designed to try and divide, to wedge your opponents?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Coalition used to speak about, Robert Menzies spoke about, the forgotten people that the Liberal party stands for. It would appear that the Liberal party want Australians to forget what they said last week, let alone last month. They demanded that Parliament be recalled. They said it should happen, even in Christmas week. They were all - not just Sussan Ley, but David Littleproud, James Paterson. All of their people in the leadership group were demanding that Parliament be brought back. They demanded the Special Envoy's report on antisemitism be implemented in full. They said they would support that legislation. What we did was bring it back in an orderly way. We announced at the beginning of January that we'd have legislation, exposure drafts, on January 12. Parliament would come back on January 19. They had full access to that legislation. We had a Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security inquiry on that -
SPEERS: But they didn't demand you put all of this into one bill, and then break it up, and I mean, even Monique Ryan, the independent, says she had only three hours to look at the legislation in the end. I mean, how is that sensible policymaking?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the legislation was, it went through an exposure draft for a week and -
SPEERS: In a different form.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there weren't that many changes, David. What we did was we split the Bill. We had to negotiate through the Senate, and with due respect to Monique Ryan, she wasn't the key to passing the legislation. The key -
SPEERS: They all have to vote on this, though.
PRIME MINISTER: The key was to either get the Greens political party or the Coalition, the then Coalition, to support legislation through the Senate. Now, when the Greens said they would support the gun laws but not support the hate laws, then what I did was stand up in Parliament House on Saturday and say we would split the Bill, we would get through the gun laws with the support of the Greens party, but then focus on the Coalition. Because up to that point, they hadn't had a Shadow Cabinet. They wouldn't tell us what they would actually support. What they were defined by was what they were against, so we gave them that opportunity. I spoke to Sussan Ley on the Saturday and made it very clear publicly at that press conference that we would only introduce legislation that had the support of the Parliament. Because the worst thing from my perspective that could be seen, David, is to bring Parliament back after the atrocity that saw 15 innocent people lose their lives to these terrorists and have a split on the floor. What I was after was consensus.
SPEERS: But we did see messiness. I mean, for most Australians it did look a mess. The lead up to, and then the parliamentary sitting, I mean, yes, it was the Coalition that broke apart, but do you feel at all embarrassed on behalf of the Parliament about the way it looked to Australians who just wanted to see some unity?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, our position was clear, David. And what I sought for the whole way through, if you go back to my media conferences from December 14, I spoke about the need for unity, about bringing the country together. And what we saw was a politicisation of this issue from the very first days at a time where, as Prime Minister, what my focus was on was keeping Australians safe. Were these two terrorists connected up with a cell here in Australia? What was the link internationally? We know they were ISIS inspired, but were there going to be other incidents right around the country? That was my focus. And we saw, unlike what happened with Port Arthur or with the Lindt cafe siege or the Bali bombing, where the country came together, where the then Labor opposition didn't seek political differentiation, we said, we'll support whatever the government puts forward. And what we saw was the exact opposite. And when the Coalition got what they asked for, which was for Parliament to be resumed and legislation to be moved, they then started to break up. They were so determined to promote division, they ended up dividing themselves.
SPEERS: They have broken up. Your support has also taken a hit in the wake of Bondi. The big winner has been One Nation. Are Australians simply disillusioned, do you think, with the major parties now?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, certainly our primary vote increased at the last election, of course.
SPEERS: I'm talking since Bondi. It's gone down.
PRIME MINISTER: But One Nation, well, one of the things that has happened, David, is that you have a Liberal and National party that during the last term focused on keeping their internal unity, but they did that by shrinking in on themselves. And since then what you've seen is a mirroring of One Nation policies, the abolition of Net Zero and the need to act on climate change as our country at the moment, David - have a look at the temperatures that are going on. There might be something in this climate change stuff. We've seen them adopt One Nation policies and shift to the right, and the problem here is that what that is doing is legitimising the hard-right policies that One Nation advocate for. You can't fight One Nation by being a lighter version of them. Now, people like the late senator Ron Boswell understood that, John Howard understood that when he put One Nation last on how-to-votes. What we saw at the last election was a preference deal between One Nation and the Coalition. We've seen them become closer and closer as the Coalition have shifted to the right. And what that does is legitimise some of the hard-right policies that One Nation has.
SPEERS: What's your approach, then, to One Nation as they grow in support? Because of all of this, is there a point at which you will treat One Nation as the real Opposition?
PRIME MINISTER: What we point out, David, and we'll continue to do so, is the damage that One Nation policies would do to our national unity, that the politics of just identifying grievance and not coming up with solutions is a cul-de-sac that doesn't lead the country anywhere.
SPEERS: But do you need to engage with them as a party? I mean, when was the last time you met Pauline Hanson?
PRIME MINISTER: I engage respectfully across the Parliament.
SPEERS: With Pauline Hanson?
PRIME MINISTER: I engage respectfully. When people ask for meetings, they get them.
SPEERS: When was the last time you had a meeting with Pauline Hanson?
PRIME MINISTER: I met some time ago, but she doesn't tend to engage with the Government. She often isn't in Parliament. Of course, she misses various sessions. But I had a meeting with the other One Nation Senator from Queensland towards -
SPEERS: Malcolm Roberts.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah. Towards the end of last year.
SPEERS: Okay, let's move on to some of the other issues on your plate. Have you made a decision yet, Prime Minister, on who will replace Kevin Rudd as Australia's Ambassador to the United States?
PRIME MINISTER: I have, and I'll be recommending to the Governor-General that Greg Moriarty be Australia's next Ambassador to the United States. Mr Moriarty is, I think, an outstanding Australian public servant. He served as an ambassador to Iran and to Indonesia. He's played a role in Papua New Guinea as well. He was the first appointed, the first counter-terrorism czar, if you like, in 2015. He's been a former chief of staff to a Liberal prime minister. He has served both Labor and Coalition governments and he's been Secretary of the Department of Defence, and of course the AUKUS relationship is central to our relationship with the United States. And he's in a very strong position to be on top of all of that detail.
SPEERS: Well, that's quite a big announcement you've just made, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER: It is indeed.
SPEERS: I suppose with someone who's spent their life as a public servant, an ambassador, as you say, leading the Defence Department, he doesn't have a social media presence. He hasn't been out there saying good or bad things about Donald Trump. Is choosing a clean skin like that, I suppose, important in this case?
PRIME MINISTER: No. What we did was I looked towards - it's a decision, it's a prerogative of the Prime Minister. I know Mr Moriarty very well, and I've been impressed by the dignified way in which he handles himself, by his connections in the United States as well. I engaged very broadly in discussions about who the right person was.
SPEERS: With the Trump administration?
PRIME MINISTER: Including with the Trump administration, who have been consulted on this appointment as well.
SPEERS: They're happy with the pick?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, and that's the way that these processes work is that we reach out, and through Ambassador Rudd we have reached out. Of course, Kevin will finish his period as Ambassador on March 31, and I think he can look back with real pride on taking AUKUS from an idea into a reality, but also the critical minerals deals, the deals on superannuation investment in the United States and building really strong links at a leadership level between Australia and the US.
SPEERS: Nonetheless, Greg Moriarty will be walking into a job that's not getting any easier when it comes to dealing with the Trump administration. I want to ask you about these extraordinary comments from the US President about the role NATO and other allies played during the war in Afghanistan. Here's what he said. 'They'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan and they did. They stayed a little back, a little off the frontlines.' Prime Minister, 47 Australians died in Afghanistan. More than 260 were wounded. What's your response to these comments?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, look, they're not acceptable and I note that President Trump has made a new statement overnight as well, in which he's acknowledged the contribution. Those 47 Australian families who will be hurting by these comments, they deserve our absolute respect, our admiration, the bravery that was shown by 40,000 Australians served in Afghanistan. They were certainly on the frontlines in order to, along with our other allies to defend democracy and freedom and to defend our national interests. They deserve our respect.
SPEERS: I think all Australians know that. You've said they're not appropriate. Your British counterparts said they were insulting, they were appalling comments. He asked for an apology, do you?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they certainly are. When it comes to the position, I think President Trump's comments overnight indicate a very different position. He's acknowledged the contribution.
SPEERS: But you think they were insulting and appalling?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, quite clearly. They were just entirely not appropriate. As we go forward, I've said very clearly that I'm not going to give a running commentary on all the President Trump's comments.
SPEERS: But he's talking here about our role in Afghanistan.
PRIME MINISTER: And that is completely unacceptable. Completely.
SPEERS: Well, Donald Trump's also invited you to be part of his new Board of Peace, as it's called. He calls this the greatest and most prestigious Board ever assembled. Here's a list of countries that have said yes, they've jumped on board. You can see Hungary, Belarus, Saudi Arabia. And over here, countries that have said no or have raised concerns, France, Sweden, Norway, Canada, the UK. Which list will Australia end up on?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think you can look at my speech that I gave to the United Nations where I spoke about the pillars of our policies, including support for multilateralism. Look, we've been focused this week obviously on domestic concerns. We'll give it further consideration, but Australia has been a founding member of the United Nations. It was a former Labor leader, of course -
SPEERS: And would this undermine the UN, this Board of Peace?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's unclear what the objectives of this are, which is why we will give it further consideration. My Government is one that always has an orderly, considered approach to all of our policy, including our international engagement.
SPEERS: Surely Australia's not going to end up in that list of countries saying yes, we're more likely to end up with Canada, the UK, like-minded countries.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're engaged with our like-minded countries as well about all of these issues, and indeed my friend Mark Carney will visit Australia and give an address to the Parliament in March. We are very much engaged with our partners overseas. And we do have a shift in the way that international politics is being played with a greater engagement from middle powers. That's something I spoke about when I addressed the UN. We need greater cooperation as we see the world changing in its dynamic,
SPEERS: So, that's another announcement. Mark Carney, the Canadian PM's coming, he'll address the Parliament in March. He just gave quite a powerful speech at the World Economic Forum in which he spoke of the brutal reality where geopolitics among the great powers is not subject to any constraints. We're in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. Middle powers must act together because if we're not at the table, we're on the menu. Do you agree with him on that?
PRIME MINISTER: I agree with him and it's consistent with what I said at the United Nations and with our engagement as well with middle powers. That's why I've engaged with the Canadian PM, but others as well in our region, is so important. Australia can play a really important role given our role as a Commonwealth nation. We're a member of APEC, we're a partner with ASEAN. We're an important leader in the Pacific Island Forum. All of this means that when you look at the global architecture, the role that we can play in our own region and around the world is of a stabilising force at a time where, quite frankly, there is a lot of turbulence and turmoil in the world.
SPEERS: When we spoke, PM, on the final show of the year in early December, I asked you about your agenda for 2026. You noted issues would arise over the summer break that we couldn't foresee. You were certainly right about that. Have the events, Bondi and also what Donald Trump's been up to, changed your agenda for the year ahead?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, whilst we've been dealing with the immediate, including the aftermath of the terrorist atrocity on December 14, we've been determined to implement our agenda, to not go off course. The big focus of Australians overwhelmingly remains on cost-of-living. So, we've had the 5 per cent housing deposit rolling out, being taken advantage of. Three days of guaranteed childcare subsidy began on January 6. Cheaper medicines, $25, came in on January 1. 1800 Medicare has already been accessed by tens of thousands of Australians. The bulk billing incentive has led to a massive spike in the number of free doctor visits as well.
SPEERS: I feel like we're getting a list here.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we have been focused on is dealing with the immediate, but dealing with all of those issues that are so important for Australians as well. And as we go back, school goes back this fortnight, and what that will mean is that the increased fairer funding for every school, that begins to kick in as well. So, you can walk and chew gum at the same time as the saying goes, and we'll be determined to do just that.
SPEERS: Tomorrow, Australia Day. There will be rival rallies taking place in various cities, protest marches. It does feel like we are becoming more polarised as a country. I mean, is that how you see it and does it worry you? What are you going to do about it?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it does worry me, and that's why I say we need to turn down the temperature of political debate. We need to make sure we look at what unites us. There's a whole range of factors here, David. I think we need a discussion about the role of social media polarisation that occurs even in mainstream media. The websites mean that, clickbait means that the headlines on stories are overdramatised from what they should be.
SPEERS: Now, what about your role? Do you need to, coming back to what we were talking about earlier, reach out more to the likes of Pauline Hanson, find points of unity with those you really disagree with?
PRIME MINISTER: I look for unity wherever possible, David, and I consistently do that. I'll continue to do that as well. One of the things that I was elected on in 2022 was I spoke about the common interest, for example, between business and unions as well, civil society, bringing people together. And to give an ad for the ABC tonight, if people want to be inspired, watch the Australian of the Year Awards tonight hosted by Leigh Sales. They are just uplifting. It is one of the best things that I get to do as Prime Minister, and it shows that ordinary Australians go out of their way to help each other. It is what defines us as Australians as well.
SPEERS: Okay. That's a good tip for watching something tonight. Look, just finally, people might've seen on the front of the Nine papers this morning a big story about a plot to kidnap you by a neo-Nazi group. Without getting into all the nitty gritty of that one, do you feel personally increasingly unsafe in your role?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's the truth that the threats have increased and there have been a range of issues that we have had to deal with, including in the week after December the 14. My focus is on keeping all Australians safe, not myself. I trust the AFP and the authorities to do their task and I'm absolutely determined to not be deterred from attending any event or engaging as Prime Minister with the Australian people. I think that's an important characteristic of our democracy. The fact that after I last appeared on Insiders, I went and got some food for dog at the supermarket. That's something that you can do here. You can't do it in other countries. But I'm very much focused on what do we need to do to keep Australians safe, and I'll continue to focus on that.
SPEERS: We'll let you get off to the shops. PM, thanks very much for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, David, and I again call upon people, tonight, switch on to ABC. You won't be disappointed. You'll be uplifted.
SPEERS: Alright, good tip. Thanks so much for that.
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/television-interview-insiders-0
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