Radio Interview – ABC Radio Melbourne Mornings with Raf Epstein
RAF EPSTEIN, HOST: Anthony Albanese is the Prime Minister of Australia. Good morning, Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, good to be with you Raf.
EPSTEIN: Do you know how much you get an hour?
PRIME MINISTER: I get a lot more than most Australians, that’s what I know. I’m very fortunate to earn the salary as Prime Minister, and it’s a great honour and a privilege. But I’m aware that with that privilege, I’m also privileged economically, and I know that people out there are doing it tough, particularly those people on the minimum wage.
EPSTEIN: I want to ask the question you were asked on the campaign trail, I’m going to use the exact same form of words. You said you don’t want –
PRIME MINISTER: You’ve got to, to do that Raf, you’ve got to do the full bit. There needs to be a full press scrum and all of that.
EPSTEIN: I’m not going to shout at you, Prime Minister. I’m not going to shout, but let me ask the question. You said you don’t want people to go backwards. Does that mean you would support a wage hike of at least 6.8 per cent just to keep up with inflation?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, our values haven’t changed, Raf. And if the Fair Work Commission was to determine that people not go backwards, would I welcome that? Absolutely. The truth is that people on the minimum wage are doing it tough. Our submission won’t put a figure on it. But we will be putting in a submission to say that the Fair Work Commission needs to consider how difficult people on the minimum wage are doing it.
EPSTEIN: So that is an absolutely answer, like black and white, you want those that, I think it’s the lowest fifth of workers or something like that, you want them to go up with inflation, at least 6.8%?
PRIME MINISTER: No, well, that’s not right. What it is is that our values haven’t changed, and if the Fair Work Commission, which is independent, this isn’t a government decision. This is a decision of the Commission that take everything into account. But what our submission will say, and we will be releasing that this morning, won’t put a figure on it, as last year’s didn’t either. But it will say that the Fair Work Commission needs to take into account that people on the minimum wage essentially spend every dollar that they get. They work hard. They’re the people who were the heroes of the pandemic, many of them, our cleaners, our essential workers, guess what about essential workers, they’re essential.
EPSTEIN: And are you saying, are you saying that your form of words has the same meaning as last year, you do want those on the minimum wage to keep up with inflation, you don’t want them to go backwards?
PRIME MINISTER: My values haven’t changed. And if the Fair Work Commission makes that decision, then I would welcome it. But it is an independent decision of government. And it’s up to them to determine the range of factors that they’ll consider.
EPSTEIN: I want to get onto the Aston by-election, but a few things have happened this week in Parliament.
PRIME MINISTER: Very busy week.
EPSTEIN: It’s been very hard for a long time to buy a home, it’s almost impossible to rent one, you have proposed a Housing Affordability Future Fund, where the government would put billions into the Future Fund, the dividend or the earnings on that would be spent on social housing. So a very specific question, if the Future Fund had a negative return, in any given year, would that mean that there would be no social housing built for that year from that fund?
PRIME MINISTER: No, because you’re putting up a hypothetical which won’t happen. The truth is that what we will do is allocate the dividends based upon, the existing Future Fund, of course, makes substantial revenue. And it would make revenue. We would be budgeting for investment, just like when we first came to office, we allocated essentially an additional, there was a fund that hadn’t been used. So we put an additional $500 million in and bear in mind Raf about this fund.
EPSTEIN: They’re two separate pots of money, Prime Minister, if you are going to spend the dividend from the Future Fund, it’s unlikely maybe the Future Fund won’t earn money, but it’s happened before so that specific question, that pot of money.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, when has it happened before Raf?
EPSTEIN: Well, I thought the year before it didn’t, it had a negative return, it shrank, it didn’t grow?
PRIME MINISTER: No, the Housing Australia Future Fund will be a $10 billion fund that will, the way that the board will be managed by the Future Fund itself and things that the Future Fund does is work out over a period of time. So it essentially streamlines the expenditure, based upon.
EPSTEIN: So are you saying it’s impossible for that particular fund to have a negative return in any year?
PRIME MINISTER: I’m saying that it’s impossible to argue that there won’t be any expenditure, because just as the Future Fund didn’t stop investing or didn’t stop its activity in any year, that hasn’t happened. What it does is it streamlines its activity over a period of time based upon revenues over a period of time.
EPSTEIN: It’s not nearly enough though, is it? I mean, the waiting lists are gonna keep getting longer. Do you think you’re doing enough?
PRIME MINISTER: No but it’s not the only fund, Raf. That’s the point.
EPSTEIN: I understand that. I’m talking about the suite of policies. Do you think you’re doing enough?
PRIME MINISTER: Well you haven’t mentioned the suite of policies. The suite of policies are the Commonwealth-State Housing Agreement, that’s the biggie. That is the agreement between the Commonwealth and the state for investment in public housing, then you have your Housing Accord, which is an agreement with the private sector, and state and territory governments as well to encourage private sector investment, to encourage land release, there’s the Housing Supply and Affordability Council, which will be doing that as well. In addition to that, there’s private rental assistance. In addition to that there’s emergency housing.
EPSTEIN: With that range of things you’re talking about, are you confident that the waiting list for housing will shrink, because the Greens say it will grow?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Greens are saying that what they want is more than $10 billion in this fund, therefore, they’ll vote for zero. It is a completely illogical position. And they ignore the fact that this is on top of the main agreement.
EPSTEIN: There are other initiatives.
PRIME MINISTER: The main agreement is between the Commonwealth and states, because what happens if the Commonwealth just fronts up and says, ‘Okay, we’re going to do this, however many billion dollars into public housing next year’, unless you get an agreement with the states, because the states own the housing, the states withdraw.
EPSTEIN: Nothing happens.
PRIME MINISTER: So thanks very much, we’ll just withdraw from our funding that we were going to put in.
EPSTEIN: Prime Minister, I think people appreciate how complex it is. And I think people appreciate you’re doing very many things. I think what people want to hear, though, is whether or not you are confident, with housing being in such crisis, are you confident that the waiting list will shrink and not grow?
PRIME MINISTER: I am confident that working with state and territory governments, we can achieve that, absolutely. That is clearly the objective. But what you’re talking about with public housing, of course, is the Commonwealth doesn’t own it. It’s state. So we are looking at ways in which we can incentivise not just our investment, but state and territory governments as well.
EPSTEIN: Anthony Albanese is the Prime Minister of Australia. I’m making a guess, Prime Minister, that most of the people if they’re listening to a show like this, are pretty good at recognising you, or at least an image of your face and of Peter Dutton’s. I just wanted to play you a snippet, I went to Aston, I’ve been there a couple of times. This is not at all to mock the people we’re about to hear from. But I’m interested to know what you would say to them. I did show this couple a picture of you and a picture of Peter Dutton. I just want everyone to hear how easily recognised you may or may not be.
EPSTEIN: Do you remember what Peter Dutton’s job is?
WOMAN ON STREET: Oh, didn’t he change recently to a new position? I can’t remember what the position is.
EPSTEIN: He’s the Leader of the Opposition now, Federal Opposition. And do you know who that is?
WOMAN ON STREET: Yes.
MAN ON STREET: Not by name.
EPSTEIN: Ringing any bells? Do you know what his job is?
MAN ON STREET: Opposition Leader?
EPSTEIN: No, no. He’s the Prime Minister.
EPSTEIN: Anthony Albanese, and I’m not at all being critical of them, of those two people. What would you say to someone who is that engaged or disengaged from the political conversation? How would you persuade them to vote for you or your party tomorrow?
PRIME MINISTER: What I’d say to them is that my government has done an enormous amount in just ten months. We just this week, put through legislation for manufacturing jobs through the National Reconstruction Fund. We got action on climate change. We need stability. And that Mary Doyle will be a voice in government for the people of Aston. So Mary Doyle will actually be able to get things done for her local community, and that as a breast cancer survivor, as a single mum, who’s worked hard, who’s lived in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne. She’s in touch with her community and she’ll be a fine representative and she’s worthy of your vote tomorrow.
EPSTEIN: You had 18 MPs on one day doorknocking in Aston. That is a football team of elected representatives doorknocking.
PRIME MINISTER: With no bench.
EPSTEIN: Which is kind of amazing. Would you be embarrassed then if you lose Aston?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no government has won a seat off the Opposition in more than a century. So the truth is that it’s very difficult. History tells us that that’s the case. And Aston in 2019, the-then local member, Alan Tudge, got 54.7% of the primary vote. So it would be astonishing if the Opposition, the Liberal Party didn’t get a vote two-party preferred with a six in front, frankly. But we’re having a crack, Mary Doyle’s a great candidate. She’s someone who didn’t shop around for a seat. She’s someone who would be a great representative. She ran last time, just a year ago, and she’s having a go again today and I’ll be there in Aston tomorrow, helping her campaign.
EPSTEIN: Are you accusing the Liberal candidate of not being sincere, just that she doesn’t care where she’s an MP?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I’m just pointing out that-
EPSTEIN: You said she was shopping around for a seat, Roshena Campbell?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I didn’t actually, I said Mary Doyle hasn’t shopped around for a seat.
EPSTEIN: The implication is that you’re saying Roshena Campbell did.
PRIME MINISTER: Well I’m talking about our candidate, which is Mary Doyle who’s committed to the people of Aston, she’s shown that by the fact that she’s running again for the seat. It’s a substantial commitment to run for a seat once, that you’re up against the odds to win. And I think probably at the last election, Mary Doyle, I don’t know what the figures were, but I would have thought she would have been ten to one to win the seat. She would have been at very long odds.
EPSTEIN: But she came close.
PRIME MINISTER: And she’s fronting up again in a by-election.
EPSTEIN: Two quick final questions, Prime Minister. The Collingwood Football Club’s already come out in support of the Voice. There are reports that both the NRL and the AFL will campaign for a yes vote. Is that okay, is that fair to the fans who are planning to vote no?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course it’s fair for clubs and sporting organisations and faith groups and businesses and any other organisation to put forward their view, because this is about Australia’s national interest. This is about doing the right thing by First Nations people, but it’s also about who we are as a country. And the way that we see ourselves and the way that the world sees us as well, and whether we will walk together. And the AFL, of course, on race relations there have been issues, Collingwood in their principled statement they’ve put out referred to that. And they see this as a matter of justice going forward, and good on them for doing so.
EPSTEIN: Final question, Prime Minister, the former US President Donald Trump looks like he’s been actually charged by that grand jury in New York State over the hush money paid to Stormy Daniels. How do you feel hearing that news, a former president’s actually going to be charged with a crime, that hasn’t happened before?
PRIME MINISTER: I’m not going to comment on the internal legal processes of the United States. I think that is really a matter for them. We are friends with the United States. I regard President Biden as a friend. I have a terrific relationship with him, and I’m very pleased, I’ll be very pleased to welcome him to Australia in May.
EPSTEIN: Thanks for your time.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Raf.