Television Interview – 7:30 | Prime Minister of Australia
SARAH FERGUSON, HOST: Prime Minister, welcome to 7.30.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you.
FERGUSON: No referendum has ever succeeded without bipartisan support. What makes you think this referendum will be different?
PRIME MINISTER: I believe that Australians will take up the positive opportunity to recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in our Constitution and also to consult them on matters that directly affect them.
FERGUSON: How hard did you try to get Peter Dutton’s support for the Yes case? He argues that you never genuinely engaged him.
PRIME MINISTER: I met with Peter Dutton on no less than seven occasions. On each of those occasions I provided him with ample opportunity to put forward suggestions, suggestions on wording. I went to Garma last July and we only introduced the legislation into the Parliament at the end of March. So you had that very long period in which Mr Dutton didn’t propose any alternative wording or indeed any alternative process from that agreed to between the Government and the Referendum Working Group.
FERGUSON: But you now have an opportunity with the parliamentary inquiry, whose work is under way, to consider the change that Julian Leeser has called for – that is removal of the reference to executive government in the question. Will you consider that request?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’ll await the committee report of course. We take those parliamentary processes seriously and we treat them with respect.
FERGUSON: Does that mean you will consider Mr Leeser’s request?
PRIME MINISTER: It means that we’ll await what the parliamentary process comes up with. They’re hearing evidence, including from former High Court judges, senior lawyers like Bret Walker, senior legal academics like Anne Twomey who have all said that the proposition that is in the legislation that’s been introduced into the Parliament is legally sound.
FERGUSON: Why is it so important from your point of view that the Voice has the power to consult executive government in the first place, that is to Ministers and their departments? Why is it so important?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it’s important to remember it in the context. That is, it’s important that they be able to make representation, which is all that it is, to Ministers, to the processes that make up our Westminster system. And of course executive government under our system derives its power from the Parliament. And that’s why when you look at the proposition that’s going forward, it makes it very clear that the Parliament retains its primacy, that there is no right of veto, that this is simply a statement that Indigenous Australians should be consulted on matters that affect them. And that consultation, the Voice isn’t the end, it’s the means to an end of how we, as Mr Julian Leeser said, how we reduce the gap in education, health, economic outcomes, incarceration rates, mortality issues as well. All of these are issues that are of fundamental importance. The current system has been in operation for 120 years.
FERGUSON: There are reports of divisions in the Referendum Working Group on the design of the Voice. One of those is about whether to adopt the Calma-Langton model, that you have spoken of a great deal. That is, that is of establishing regional voices that will, in turn, elect the National Voice. Is that division why you haven’t committed to the model of regional voices yet?
PRIME MINISTER: Not at all. The principles that were put forward by the Referendum Working Group that I spoke of at the press conference held here in Parliament House a few weeks ago, made it clear that there will be local and regional bodies, that it will be based upon as well, we’ll work with existing organisations and that of course over a period of time, that may be different in different states and territories. For example, South Australia has established a Voice to Parliament. It’s quite clear that the National Voice would work with state voices, were they to be established as well. So clearly we want to hear from local communities, working the way up. But you need a National Voice as well. I saw Peter Dutton’s press conference that they did after the party room and it didn’t reflect the decision that had just been played by the Liberal Party, which was to support local and regional voices and a National Voice. So Peter Dutton needs to clarify exactly what the Liberal Party’s position is because I don’t know what it is at this point in time.
FERGUSON: To be clear, does that mean that your government will be following through with the model, allowing for variations and discussions of course, but with the model proposed by Tom Calma and Marcia Langton?
PRIME MINISTER: There’s not a single model proposed by Tom Calma and Marcia Langton. They speak about making sure there is rural and remote representation and we certainly would want to see that. They speak about gender representation as well and making sure that regions like the Torres Strait are properly represented. We will work through the legislation if the referendum is successful on the model going forward and that will be in the legislation. That will put in place the structure of the voice. But the principles have already been outlined by the Referendum Working Group. We support those principles.
FERGUSON: Peter Dutton’s trip to Alice Springs and his calls for action over alleged child sexual abuse recall the lead-up to the Howard Government Intervention. If Peter Dutton provides evidence of his claims, will the Federal Government investigate them?
PRIME MINISTER: No. They should be investigated by the police. If there are circumstances of abuse of children, that’s a crime, and it shouldn’t be investigated by a politician or by a bureaucrat. Crimes should be investigated by the police. And that is why the Northern Territory Government, as well as people such as Senator McCarthy, have said if there is this evidence or claims, it should be reported to the police.
FERGUSON: Peter Dutton made a very specific allegation. He says that you were made aware of abused children being returned to their abusers. A very serious allegation. The inference was that you failed to act. Is that true?
PRIME MINISTER: No
FERGUSON: In no way? There was no information brought to you about children abused, children being returned to their abusers?
PRIME MINISTER: No. Not that I’m aware of. That is the first I’ve heard of it.
FERGUSON: When Peter Dutton said that in Alice Springs at the time, what’s he basing that on then?
PRIME MINISTER: I have no idea. Peter Dutton makes all sorts of claims. The tragedy here is that serious issues like the abuse of children that Peter Dutton or myself or I would hope any Member of Parliament has a uniform abhorrence of, shouldn’t be used as a political issue. If there are any allegations, they should be reported to the police.
FERGUSON: Are you suggesting Peter Dutton made that fact up?
PRIME MINISTER: I don’t regard it as a fact.
FERGUSON: I should say ‘that assertion’. Did Peter Dutton invent that assertion?
PRIME MINISTER: I have no idea of what it is based upon. It’s possible that there may well have been a letter somewhere. I don’t know what the basis of it is. But certainly he has not raised any specific issue about any claim, about any individual circumstance with me. If he did, I would say to him that he should report that to the police.
FERGUSON: Now going back to the wording of the referendum question and the Solicitor-General’s advice. You said his advice will be made public through the Attorney-General. Is that actually going to happen?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes.
FERGUSON: When and in what manner will that happen?
PRIME MINISTER: Through the processes that will be determined by the Attorney-General. But the Solicitor-General’s view has been clear in the advice that he has given.
FERGUSON: Let’s be clear about that before we come back to the details about how it will be released. The Solicitor-General was supporting the idea the Voice should be able to make representations to executive government?
PRIME MINISTER: I’m not going to speak on behalf of the Solicitor-General. I will say that the Solicitor-General’s view will be made very clear by himself through the Attorney-General, which is the appropriate forum for it to take.
FERGUSON: When will that happen, Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: When it happens I’m sure you’ll be very aware of it
FERGUSON: When it happens, will the advice be released? Will it be the full written advice or a summary thereof?
PRIME MINISTER: No. The documentation that goes to the Cabinet, like any other Cabinet Document, doesn’t get released. That’s just a way that Cabinet Government operates. It’s way that the Cabinet operated under the Morrison-Turnbull and Abbott Governments and the way it operated when I previously served as Deputy Prime Minister and with other positions in government.
FERGUSON: So does that mean we expect to see a summary of the Solicitor-General’s advice, just to be clear?
PRIME MINISTER: No. You’ll have to be patient, Sarah. I’ve said that the Solicitor-General’s views will be made clear through the Attorney-General. I’ve been advised of that by the Attorney-General.
FERGUSON: One of the reasons why this is important is because Peter Dutton has asserted on the number of occasions that you overrode the Solicitor-General’s view that there was a problem with executive government being part of the referendum question?
PRIME MINISTER: Peter Dutton, of course, has gone down the time-honoured strategy of trying to undermine the success in a referendum by raising questions and doubts, by not having any substance to his Opposition. It’s a political decision that Peter Dutton has made to try to make this into an issue in which he perceives that because the Government is supporting a referendum, he will oppose it, just like he’s opposed everything. He’s turned the Coalition into the No-alition. And I would say to Peter Dutton: if not now, when? When are we going to recognise Indigenous Australians in our nation’s Constitution if we don’t do it this year?
FERGUSON: Prime Minister, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Sarah.