Television interview – Sky News AM Agenda
LAURA JAYES, HOST: What deals have you done to appease the left on AUKUS? How much is it going to cost you?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: We’re not doing deals. What we’re doing is putting forward the arguments of why Australia needs to participate in AUKUS, of why it’s good for Australia. I put it very simply – does Australia as an island continent need submarines? If the answer to that is yes, then what is the form of submarine that is the most effective? And quite clearly, I’ve been convinced, and we’ve convinced, I’m confident, a majority of delegates that nuclear powered, conventionally armed submarines are the most effective form of defence that Australia can have in this era in which we need to make sure that Australia can defend ourselves.
JAYES: Haven’t you promised 10,000 union jobs?
PRIME MINISTER: What submarines will do by being built here is create jobs. This is good for industry policy as well. Just like the car industry drove advanced manufacturing in the post-war period, thanks to the vision of Chifley and Curtin. What this will do, this industry will do, is to drive jobs and advanced manufacturing in this century and the decades to come.
JAYES: You keep on saying how open and transparent this whole process is, but backroom deals are being done to avoid embarrassment, really. Don’t you miss those old days of fights on the floor, Albo?
PRIME MINISTER: We’re a mature political Party. And we’re a Party of Government. We also have a great sense of unity and a sense of purpose. I feel it around this conference. I feel it when I go to state conferences. And I live it every day around the Cabinet table.
JAYES: The CFMEU, they were successful yesterday committing the Party to corporate tax reform, quote, unquote, ‘A social and progressive tax system’. So, are we going to see more tax on business?
PRIME MINISTER: No. But who doesn’t support a progressive tax system? I support a progressive tax system. Always have. We need to make sure that our taxes are progressive. That’s why we have different marginal tax rates. That’s why we have a system that ensures that we can provide the services that Australia needs in education and health and housing and other services.
JAYES: You’re not going to use this to wiggle out of stage three tax cuts though, are you?
PRIME MINISTER: We have not changed our position on the stage three tax cuts. I’ve been very clear about that.
JAYES: But your platform just changed?
PRIME MINISTER: A very clear statement of something that everyone in the Labor Party supports, and everyone in the Labor Party has always supported. And I would have thought that everyone across the Parliament supports a progressive tax system.
JAYES: So, the platform’s changed. But your position hasn’t changed?
PRIME MINISTER: Our position has not changed.
JAYES: What’s the point of the Labor Conference then?
PRIME MINISTER: What a Labor Party Conference does is to establish a platform, the principles going forward. Labor governments determine the policy, the timelines, and the commitments that we will make in the lead-up to the next election are just like the commitments we made in the lead-up to the last election. Ones we’ve been going through ticking off – cheaper child care, the National Reconstruction Fund, the Jobs and Skills Australia, the commitments that we made across the board to climate change, including net zero by 2050. What we’ve been doing in Government is putting in place, one by one, in an orderly way, the plan that we took for a better future to the 2022 election. What we’ll be doing in the lead-up to the next election is outlining very clearly in the months leading up to 2025 what our plans are for a second term. And we do need a second term and beyond, because one of the points that I made at Conference yesterday, and I’ll continue to make in speeches over the next two days, is that you need a long term Labor Government in order to put in place in an entrenched way to the changes that we need. Just as Hawke and Keating’s changes in areas like Medicare that now are entrenched into our political system. Superannuation, that is entrenched, the economic reforms that Hawke and Keating did. We’re going through an economic transformation now with the clean energy revolution that’s going on around the world. Now, we need to make sure that we take advantage of that and position Australia with the opportunity which is there for us to go forward.
JAYES: You’ve run a pretty centrist Government so far. The left faction is now dominant at this Conference. Are they disappointed in you? Do they want you to move further to the left?
PRIME MINISTER: Well look, the Labor Party Conference has 400 delegates. You’d be concerned if there weren’t some disagreements amongst 400 people about the future. If you pick them at random, you’d have different views. There are not 400 Sky News interviewers, but there are different views amongst the Sky News interviewers as well.
JAYES: There are.
PRIME MINISTER: So, the truth is that what unites the Labor Party is the commitment to social justice, is the commitment to job creation, it is the commitment to creating opportunity and lifting Australia up, it is the commitment to engaging in our world, to peace and security and prosperity in our region. Now, all of those things unite the Labor Party. But the other thing that unites the Labor Party is that we need to be in Government in order to put in place the policies into actuality, to actually deliver on commitments. We’re not a Party of protest. We’re a Party of progress. We’re a Party of delivery. Not one that sits on the outside like the minor parties do, wait for a decision to be made and then decide whether they have a protest or not. We actually want governments that sit around the Cabinet table and make decisions. And I’ve been in Parliament for ten terms now, three of them in Government. I know the difference between Government and Opposition. And one of the things you’ve seen from my Government and its ministers is that experience of the Rudd-Gillard years where you have so many people who have served in senior roles, but also understand that the disunity that occurred, that helped to undermine the possibility of a long-term Labor with Government, meant that we spent then the next three terms in Opposition. You are seeing around the Cabinet table, around the Caucus, that sense of unity. That determination to learn those lessons and put in place a mature, orderly, stable Government. And that’s what the Australian people have seen put in place over our first 15 months. But they’ll see that reflected as well in the way that this Conference is conducting itself. But they’ll see it as well into the next election.
JAYES: Okay, let’s talk about the Voice. Because you mentioned this yesterday in your opening speech. I’ve spoken to marginal MPs who are worried about talking about the Voice because they’re worried that they could lose their seats. Have they said this to you? And what have you said to them?
PRIME MINISTER: Our Caucus and our Party is united.
JAYES: I know they are. But they still worried.
PRIME MINISTER: They are united around getting this done. This isn’t a matter of convenience. This is a matter of conviction. This is about recognising our First Nations people in our Constitution after 122 years, and then it’s simply about listening in order to get better results. We can’t continue to just do more of the same, And constitutional change isn’t easy. We know eight out of 48 referendums have passed, and only one that’s been put forward by the Labor Party has passed. In 1944.
JAYES: I know you know this history then. So, are you now hedging a little bit?
PRIME MINISTER: Not at all.
JAYES: Are you looking at this thinking, ‘Okay, this might fail’. But if it fails, is it dead for decades then or have times changed?
PRIME MINISTER: I think if it fails, it will be a setback for reconciliation, and it will be a lost opportunity. And what we know from the Republic referendum that was held at the end of the last century, the last time we had a referendum, is not only has it not returned in the quarter of a century almost since, it’s not on the horizon in the next couple of years either. So, this is an opportunity to seize what is, in my view, a very gracious and generous offer. And I’m also very confident that when Australians focus on what the actual question is, what the change they are being asked to vote for simply, recognition, and then an advisory body to government on matters that affect Indigenous Australians that the Government will make a decision of whether they agree with it or not, doesn’t have the right of veto. But we know that it will get better results. Because we know from experience on justice reinvestment programs, Indigenous Rangers programs, on community health programs, that when Indigenous people are consulted and have that sense of ownership, you get better outcomes.
JAYES: I share your belief. I do not share your confidence at this point. If this fails, what responsibility do you take?
PRIME MINISTER: This is in the hands of the Australian people. I will do my best to promote a Yes vote. I was fully aware, and when I said that we would hold a referendum, there were people who said that’s a risk. Of course, it’s a risk. Change is hard. But this is necessary. And I’ll make this point, If not now, when? If not now, when? Now, John Howard promised to advance constitutional recognition prior to the 2007 election. We’ve had a long process, The Uluru Statement from the Heart was in 2017, six years ago. How long do the people who have campaigned in the lead-up to that in that process and then since, how long do they wait before we have a vote? So, we will have a vote. We will have a vote. And I’m hopeful that will be successful.
JAYES: 14th of October?
PRIME MINISTER: We will have a vote in October or November. We’re working with the AEC. We will make an announcement at an appropriate time. And Australians, I’m sure, will focus, as they do, in the lead-up to an election campaign. They focus in the weeks leading up to it. And there will be a focus on a vote. Australians will get to decide. I’ll respect the outcome, whatever it is. You have to respect the decision that Australian people say in a democracy.
JAYES: So, if this fails you will no longer campaign for a Voice or constitutional recognition?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, you have to respect the outcome. I’ll still support constitutional recognition, of course. But there won’t be another vote next week or next year. I still will do whatever I can to assist closing the gap. But what we know is it will be harder because a Voice will make it easier. There’ll be a structured body, advisory body, to government to make it easier.
JAYES: A few quick things that have come up at the Conference is a bit of criticism of the Qatar Airways decision. A lot of union reps here are angry at Qantas. Why did your Government lock out competition?
PRIME MINISTER: It’s not a matter, it’s actually not the way that Air Services Agreements work. Air Services Agreements are between, and I was Transport Minister for six years, there’s nothing unusual about countries wanting Air Services Agreements that increase the capacity to fly into the major airports, which is where Air Services Agreements come from. There are possibilities under the Act to apply to other airports in Australia as well.
JAYES: I understand that as well. But when you look at it from a consumer point of view, it looks like a protection racket around Qantas. They’ve already got $2.5 billion in taxpayer funds, they’re charging expensive fares, they’re recording record profits for the shareholders. They could do with a bit more competition, couldn’t they?
PRIME MINISTER: There is already an incredibly competitive international aviation market here in Australia. It is in, if you have a look around the world, it in fact is the most competitive market in the world is what was seen with the Aviation White Paper that I did all those years ago. If you look at Europe, if you look at a range of countries, we don’t have an Air Services Agreement, an open skies agreement with Europe for example. Qantas aren’t able to fly into any airport that they wish to, and Australian airlines have limits in where they can go. That is the way the International Air Services Agreements work. When I was the Minister, there were applications to expand Air Services Agreements that were not done, a number of them. This is business as usual. There’s nothing extraordinary about saying that Australia’s national interests should be considered.
JAYES: Alright. Let’s talk Tillies. Because the Matildas have inspired grown men like yourself. But unlike some of your fellow travellers, you actually have the power to harness this now, Prime Minister. So, what are you going to do to mark this moment? They need money.
PRIME MINISTER: Watch this space
JAYES: So, you’re cooking something?
PRIME MINISTER: Watch this space. Look, we’ve been considering issues of sporting infrastructure and these issues for a long period of time. Unfortunately, the former Government with their Sports Rorts program, where they established a women’s sports program, gave funding to clubs that didn’t actually have women’s teams, have undermined what was there. They were in Government for 10 years. The one specific program they had was rorted and was a debacle.
JAYES: Well, Peter Dutton has now committed $250 million.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course he has. He did nothing for 10 years.
JAYES: That’s the power of the Matildas, right?
PRIME MINISTER: He sat in a Cabinet that provided women’s sports programs to clubs that didn’t have women’s teams. He sat in a Cabinet that provided regional sports funding to North Sydney pool, right next to Sydney Harbour Bridge.
JAYES: Alright, what are you going to do though, Prime Minster? Something substantial?
PRIME MINISTER: You’ll see announcements at an appropriate time. We’ve considered these issues. I suspect that Mr Dutton might know that we’ve considered these issues. We’ll make an announcement at an appropriate time. But we will always look for ensuring that our community sports programs are properly funded and directed to actually delivering. So, one of our election commitments that will be delivered for example, I’m conscious of in my electorate, is Henson Park to allow women’s sports facilities to be built there as well, separately because the AFLW, both the Swans and the Giants are going to play there. Now, that was a considered program. That was done in partnership with the Inner West Council, with the AFL and AFLW. We made an announcement there. We had a proper business case. That construction will begin, I think, at the end of this season so hopefully it’s ready for next year. So, that’s how you do proper funding, not an announcement from Opposition having sat in Government for a decade. But the Matildas have been inspirational, And I just think it’s been fantastic.
JAYES: I’ve never seen so many grown men in Mary Fowler jerseys. And it is good to see.
PRIME MINISTER: It is indeed.
JAYES: Before I let you go, and I know I’m very conscious of time. But Michael Parkinson was a giant of my industry, and he is an example of the best of what we do, and he has died overnight. You would have grown up seeing Parky, what is your favourite moment?
PRIME MINISTER: I certainly did. And I got to meet him a number of times because there wasn’t a cricket test in January, where he wasn’t a presence. And my mum loved him, never missed an interview. Because this was, I think for your viewers on Sky, like other forms of media that just didn’t exist. You didn’t have 24-hour media, you didn’t have social media, so we didn’t know about people who were famous, we didn’t get an insight into their character. And Parky had an ability to draw out the character of the people he was speaking with. It was as if they had known each other for years or decades. And he had incredible capacity. He was warm and generous. He was never unkind, either. He was incisive, but there was never an unkind question. It wasn’t a ‘gotcha’ moment, it was about drawing character, And he was the best, simple as that. The best I think there has ever been. Because now with what we can look at, just Google about someone, it’s a very different world that we live in now. So, it is the passing of a great media interviewer, someone who was a great friend of Australia, He loved Australia, he spent every summer here – and who wouldn’t want to, frankly, spend summer here rather than in the northern winter. And people will be really reflecting on him today. And I’m sure we’ll see a lot of those great interviews. Everyone from Dame Edna, to Muhammad Ali to all the greats of the movie world, business, politics. He could get interviews that no one else could. And we’ll never see his like again, by definition.
JAYES: I hope he is up there having a great conversation with Warnie.
PRIME MINISTER: Indeed. Can I just say, Laura, this morning I’m going to Ipswich for today is Vietnam Veterans’ Day in which we commemorate the 50th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War. And today is a day in which I’ll be paying tribute to those men and women who served, particularly in that war. Because what happened when they came home was they didn’t get the respect and the support and the care that they needed, but importantly as well, that they deserved. And today is a day, it doesn’t commemorate the end of Australia’s involvement, it commemorates the Battle of Long Tan. But it’s when Vietnam veterans are given tribute. And I pay tribute to them today. And I’d say as well that for those of your listeners and all of us, we can do more to reach out not just today, but every day and make sure that our veterans are given the support that they need.
JAYES: Nicely said, Prime Minister. Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Laura.