ABC Radio Melbourne with Ali Moore
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
Topics: Ten-year Migration Strategy, tighter visa processes, ASQA regulator.
ALI MOORE, HOST: Well, as you’ve been hearing in the news today, the Federal Government has announced its ten-year migration strategy and the question is, will tighter visa processes for both workers and international students really make a difference when it comes to fixing that system, which the government calls ‘broken’? They’re aiming to halve migration numbers by 2025, back to what the government’s calling more normal levels. Brendan O’Connor is the Minister for Skills and Training. Brendan O’Connor, welcome to Drive.
BRENDAN O’CONNOR, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Good afternoon, Ali.
MOORE: In your words, why do we have to cut the number of migrants in half?
O’CONNOR: Well, we have to keep the flow of migration on a sustainable level and of course we’ve had some very serious disruptions to migration to this country with the global pandemic. So, we went from a flow of skilled migration and other migrants, permanent and temporary, to a complete cessation by the previous government, which we accepted because it was for health reasons, we didn’t have a vaccination for the virus. And of course, then we opened up our borders and then we had a very sustained increase in the flow of people, which is good in many ways, but we have to sustain that and we can’t have a flow of migration that makes it very difficult for us to deal with the capacity challenges. So, we just need to manage it, make it sustainable. I mean, migration is an Australian story, it’s a positive story, but we have to do it in a way that’s manageable all around.
MOORE: If we start by looking then at the changes for international students, how is that going to work? You’ve got tighter visa conditions, how do you police it? The granting of the visa, the verification of the course that they’ll be doing, ensuring they stay in the course, the English language requirements, how are all of those things going to change?
O’CONNOR: Can I say, as someone who’s a former Immigration Minister, I have seen, when last in government, a conflation between the misuse of certain visas, that is, not by most people, by a minority of people, but using them for a purpose other than it was issued. And we need to make sure if we want to be a – and we’re recognised as a country with a very, very good international education sector – if we’re going to maintain that reputation we cannot have the gaming of immigration and the traducing of our education standards by allowing exploitation and misuse of visas, so people are, if you like, arriving here for the ostensible purpose of engaging in education, but really are not here to do that. And that has happened too often. So, how are we going to approach, how are we going to deal with that? Well firstly, there needs to be, the Department of Home Affairs needs to be more focused on how it issues visas and to ensure there’s a predominant purpose. In the case of my sector, that I’m looking at, the vocational education and training sector, we need to make sure that there’s a significant regulation around providers who are enrolling overseas students, so that there’s genuine engagement, there’s quality courses and they’re delivering to those students. With that in mind, just in relation to this announcement, that’s why we’ve invested a further almost $40 million to bolster the capacity of ASQA, which is the VET regulator, that will be obviously over-sighting the sector to make sure that things are done properly, investing $19 million to bolster the student visa integrity unit in Home Affairs. So, there’s investment –
MOORE: How quickly will that actually have an impact?
O’CONNOR: Look there’s a combination of reforms. So, for example, I met with state and territory Ministers some months ago to put in place an enhanced approach to who could be an executive officer or who could own a VET provider. And the character test is much more stringent to prevent people coming in, in some cases repetitively, to misuse their role as a VET provider. And so that’s already been embraced by all governments because state and territories have a role to play in the VET sector, very much so.
MOORE: So, what about what you’re calling non genuine training providers, who are obviously key to how this system has not been working? Have you identified the ones that you’re going to shut down?
O’CONNOR: Well, there are some that are already identified. So, ASQA, which is the regulator, will be identifying that. We’ve got a mechanism which allows students and others to inform government if there’s been misuse, abuse by providers, who are not doing what they’re supposed to be doing as providers.
MOORE: But will ASQA actually have the resources to go out and check, to actually go out and see what’s happening?
O’CONNOR: Well, that’s what I said. So, this announcement includes $40 million almost, just under $40 million investment to bolster the capacity of the national VET regulator. There’s $19 million to significantly bolster student visa integrity in the unit in Home Affairs. There’s legislation that will be foreshadowed to strengthen the powers of ASQA as well. And as I said, there’s already been put in place improved arrangements to VET, to assess regulators, to make sure they do not have a history of bad behaviour, because often in these areas you see people being shut down but then coming back again. So, there’s a combination of things, both investment in regulation, investment in enforcement and also new powers, some of which can be done without legislation, some that will need to be legislated, and we’ll be intending to do so in the new year.
MOORE: So, you’re not capping the number of international students. Do you have an ideal number, a number that is sustainable for this country?
O’CONNOR: Look, I think it’s fair to say that it reached its peak under the previous government, where it was over 900,000 in 2019. That got severely disrupted by something entirely external, the global pandemic. And then we’ve seen a restoration. And let’s be very, very clear, international education is a fantastic sector for Australia. It is the biggest export services sector in Victoria, second biggest in New South Wales, fourth biggest in the country –
MOORE: Sure. But what’s the target?
O’CONNOR: Well, this is important to know. I’m saying to you, that we’re going to ensure, as the Minister for Home Affairs has said today, so too insofar as the sector’s concerned, we’re going to make sure it’s manageable. And what has been happening over the last six or seven years, despite that disruption that sort of had people leave, but then return, is there’s been a growth of enrolments that was very hard to sustain if we didn’t start managing it. Now, if we tighten up the offers on the basis of quality and on the basis of ensuring that they’re getting a good education, then we’re going to see a reduction in the growth in international education. And that’s good in two ways. One is we cannot have people acting improperly or acting in a way that they shouldn’t be acting, misusing a visa, nor should we have VET providers not providing courses, and we cannot have our reputation as an international education country being diminished because of that conduct.
MOORE: Sure. But if the strategy is to manage to get a better run system, you must have an idea of what that is going to mean in terms of numbers. I mean, in theory, you could manage the system better and have the numbers that you’ve got today.
O’CONNOR: Well, look, the sector itself is growing. If for example, there are capacity constraints that are relieved in some way, shape or form, then obviously we look to see that increase. If we need to tighten it to ensure there are not issues that make it difficult to sustain the international education sector on a growth path, then we’ll obviously look at that. There has to be some flexibility here because there’s a lot of moving parts. But the most important part for us today is to say we cannot have the migration flowing unsustainably and we’ve needed the restoration after migration stopping, but now we have to manage it. And so too with international education. We need to make sure it’s sustainable and it’s quality education. It’s very good revenue, very good engagement, very good diplomatic engagement in the region, because we work with so many other countries. But can I just say Ali one other thing on this in terms of international education, one of the reasons why Jason Clare and I are engaging with countries in the region is there is a new opportunity for us to increase our tertiary sector’s engagement in those countries as well. So, a combination of international students studying here, we’re also partnering those education sectors in other countries with universities, with TAFEs, so we could grow the international education sector, but not in this country in every circumstance.
MOORE: You’re listening to the Minister for Skills and Training, Brendan O’Connor. Brendan O’Connor, just a final question. Just looking at the skilled and the unskilled workforce, and you’ve made commitments around the skilled workforce and how fast you can get a visa turned around for those with skills the country needs. With the unskilled workforce, can you still have a tighter system, as you are promising, but also ensure that all those sectors that rely on labour that we bring in, thinking things like aged care, the health sector, they will be able to get the people they need?
O’CONNOR: Well, we need to make sure we supply the skills and that includes a combination of education training here and skilled migration pathways. And can I say with respect to that, whether it’s the care economy or other sectors of our economy, we’re putting really at the center of this Jobs and Skills Australia. We’ll be basing decisions, and Minister O’Neil has made this point clear today, we’ll be basing our decisions on hard evidence, on empirical information that’s been gathered, public and private data collated by the JSA, to ensure that when we’re making decisions in this area, we’re doing so on the basis of what is needed today and what will be needed in the future. And that’s why we created JSA and that’s why we’ll continue to ensure that Jobs and Skills Australia will have a direct role, working with the Department of Home Affairs, working with other departments, to ensure that we have the best possible evidence to allow for streams of skilled migration to fill current and future demands.
MOORE: Brendan O’Connor, thanks for your time.
O’CONNOR: Thanks very much, Ali.
MOORE: Brendan O’Connor, the Minister for Skills and Training there.