Radio interview – ABC Radio Sydney
JAMES VALENTINE, HOST: Prime Minister, good morning.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, James. Good to be with you.
VALENTINE: I didn’t know you had such an affinity for jewellery design.
PRIME MINISTER: I don’t, but when I received the request from the NRL I was very happy to participate, I’ve got to say. It was a great honour. It was very quick, and, of course, Sam the jeweller was very helpful, let me say this, in providing some guidance. It’s a pretty simple task, really. The Premiership rings have the NRL symbol on them and then it’s just a matter of what you put around them and the shape. But I think we came up with a pretty good design and they look fantastic. Using the golden wattle of Australia to have yellow diamonds around the ring.
VALENTINE: We’ll get your predictions as to who you think is going to be wearing that on Sunday in a moment or two. Prime Minister, it’s two weeks before the referendum on the Voice. You’ve been saying all along, perhaps this is when people will really focus, this is when people will start to start to decide. What are you going to do, it’s perhaps largely down to what we might call soft Nos and undecided. If you want a Yes on October the 14th, what’s going to happen in the next fortnight?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, conversations need to happen, one on one. People will focus on what the actual question is. And the question before the Australian people is very clear. It does just two things, it recognises Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as Australia’s first peoples in our Constitution. Something that should have happened back in 1901, really just recognition of a historical fact. And secondly, it says the form of recognition is through a non-binding advisory committee. Which is what the Voice is. Just a body to be able to give advice. It’s not binding to Parliament and to government on matters that affect Indigenous people. Why would you want to do that? Because you get better results when you consult people about matters that affect them. Now that is what is before the Australian people. The fear campaign, of course, fear campaigns can be powerful, but you never change a country for the better through fear. You change it through hope and optimism and compassion and justice. This is what this referendum is about and we’ll be out there campaigning. Last night in Marrickville at the Factory Theatre, we had the Inner West Yes campaign launch with the great Ray Martin. It was great to be interviewed on stage, myself and Rachel Perkins, by Ray Martin, who gave a very powerful speech as well. So, it’s through activities like that, talking with people in the suburbs, in the regional towns, in remote communities who are voting as we’re speaking, and it is having those conversations that will make a difference.
VALENTINE: Now, I invited people who are undecided to put the point that’s a sticking point to me this morning and to you on the text service. So, here’s one. ‘There’s been Aboriginal advisory committees to federal governments for the last 50 years. Has anyone ever analysed why these committees did not work before we create another?’ Asks Alan.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course, there have been four different bodies that have been, for example, ATSIC. One of the issues there, I think, was that it was a funding body. So, that experience has been worked through. So, this is a body that won’t provide funds, that won’t run programs, that will just give advice to the government. And that experience of past bodies and issues that have arisen has been factored in by Indigenous Australians when they’ve made this request.
VALENTINE: So, I suppose this is another criticism that comes forward of the proposal as it is, that it’s sort of both it’s everything and nothing. It will fix everything, but it doesn’t really have much power. Both arguments seem to be being put at once.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we know that when you consult Indigenous people, you get better outcomes. You see that with Justice Reinvestment in Burke. You see that with community health programs, with the Indigenous Rangers, Programs that have been so successful right around Australia. We saw it more recently with COVID. You will recall, James, the potential for quite catastrophic outcomes when COVID hit Aboriginal communities when decisions were being made in Canberra or in the capital cities of Sydney and other states. What happened when people went to Indigenous communities, spoke with them, gave them some empowerment over the way that vaccines were rolled out and the health outcomes and what needed to happen. That’s when it turned around. So we know, common sense tells you, this is a bit like, someone said to me last night, this is just like the P&C at the local school. It gives advice, it doesn’t run the school, it doesn’t run the Education Department. But if schools listen to the advice of the people who are directly affected, teachers and parents and students themselves, then you get better outcomes.
VALENTINE: But that’s where, I wonder, this keeps people in an undecided camp where, well, if it’s just like the P&C, then it doesn’t really have any power. So, what’s it going to do? How does that address the grinding poverty of remote communities?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it has the power of its ideas. The power of its ideas to put forward the views of Indigenous Australians in remote communities, in regional towns, in our capital cities and urban communities. That is something that is powerful and it is something that can make a difference, because we know from experience, you look at the programs that have involved Indigenous people have been far more successful than those that haven’t. And the other thing it will do, James, is give responsibility. With involvement and engagement and agency comes responsibility, so that it’s not a matter of, ‘Oh, well, some bureaucrat in Canberra has made a decision’. If people have been able to participate and put forward their views, you’ll get greater responsibility.
VALENTINE: You’re hearing from the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese. It’s coming up to six minutes to seven. We’re talking, taking your questions, particularly undecided issues. What’s the thing that’s a sticking point for you on the coming referendum on October the 14th on a Voice to Parliament? Here’s another one, Prime Minister, ‘I’m undecided on the phrase ‘and Executive Government’ in the referendum question. I don’t trust the government of the day to represent the Voice through the political elite of the day’.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Parliament will remain prime. That is one of the beauties of this proposal. So that the elected government, people who are elected in the normal way, will make decisions and that is what is appropriate going forward. So, I think that that is one of the powerful things about this, is that it is very important that Parliament remain its primacy and Parliament will, of course, be able to adjust legislation, that won’t change at all. So, there’s nothing to fear here from this proposal. But when you give people agency and you give them the responsibility also, you will get better outcomes, you’ll get better efficiency. That’s why conservatives like Chris Kenny are arguing, this is a very fiscally responsible policy as well, because it’s not like there hasn’t been a lack of will or a lack of money contributed to Indigenous communities, but we’re not closing the gap. Now, a No vote is a vote for what we have now. We’re in No now, we need to do better. And if you do the same thing in the same way, you should expect the same outcomes.
VALENTINE: Hearing from the Prime Minister. Prime Minister, you’re saying it’s a conversation. Have a chat with Louise, Louise from Hawks Nest. She’s joined us this morning. Morning, Louise.
LOUISE, LISTENER: Oh, good morning, James.
VALENTINE: What do you want? Say hello to the Prime Minister and then put your point.
LOUISE: Could you please explain how a Yes vote will actually benefit First Nations people living in very remote areas where I’ve seen unbelievable, gut wrenching poverty? I mean, it’s shameful. And how is it actually going to help them?
VALENTINE: Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: You’re quite right. The conditions in health and education and housing are ones that are unacceptable in 2023. And that’s why these remote communities, the Central Land Council, the Northern Land Council, they are all supporting, all supporting a Yes vote. Every single land council in the Northern Territory, for example, is out there campaigning for a Yes vote. And one of the reasons why they are is because they know firsthand that when communities have involved in community health, for example, on Cape York or the school programs in Northeast Arnhem Land, what we’ve seen from experience is that when you have that Indigenous involvement and engagement, more kids are going to school, they’re learning as well, in a culturally appropriate way. So, for example, learning in First Nations language as well as in English, and you’re getting much better outcomes. So, for example, the Yolngu people in Northeast Arnhem Land are a great example of community through the leadership of Yunupingu, a great leader, and others have really been very successful because they have had that empowerment. And what they’re saying is that the Uluru Statement, to quote Yunupingu, will light a fire that will spread throughout the land.
VALENTINE: Louise, that work for you?
LOUISE: Yes, I guess so. Yeah. It’s a very difficult topic, actually.
VALENTINE: Why do you find it difficult? What do you mean?
LOUISE: Well, I mean, I haven’t listened to the fear campaigns, but I’ve heard other people talking about them and of course, they’re complete nonsense. I think it’s difficult because First Nations people are so divided. You’ve got the ones living right in Central Australia and in very remote areas, and then you’ve got people who live in the cities who, of course, have more of a say.
VALENTINE: And so you’re hearing two different views and it’s hard to pick between. Louise, we’ve got to wrap it up, but thank you so much for calling in and joining us. Prime Minister. Grand final Sunday, you’ll be there. Who do you expect to be wearing your beautifully designed Premiership ring?
PRIME MINISTER: I think Penrith are entitled to be favourites, given their big game experience, but the Broncos can get there. They’re an exciting team. Reece Walsh at the back is quite electric. And my old friend Adam Reynolds steering the Broncos around will, I think, have a cracker of a game. He’s a big game player and he’ll be up for it as well, so I just hope it’s a close game
VALENTINE: Yeah, exactly. We’ve got two potentially really great grand finals on the weekend. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, thanks so much for coming on.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, James.